Legislature(2003 - 2004)

04/14/2004 01:55 PM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE BILL NO. 452                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     An Act relating to licensing and regulation of sport                                                                       
     fishing services operators and fishing guides; and                                                                         
     providing for an effective date.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CHERYLL HEINZE explained  that years  ago she                                                                   
was the  owner of a fishing  and guiding lodge on  the Yentna                                                                   
River  and   employed  four  guides,  which   influenced  her                                                                   
introduction of this bill.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Heinze  explained that currently  Alaska lacks                                                                   
a  unified set  of  standards for  sport  fish guiding.  This                                                                   
makes it  difficult to protect  fish habitats and  ensure the                                                                   
maximum  utilization   of  Alaska's  resources.   HB  452  is                                                                   
intended  to   legitimize  and  protect  the   sport  fishing                                                                   
industry by establishing professional  standards and ensuring                                                                   
accurate reporting of guiding  activity throughout the state.                                                                   
This  legislation  will  enhance  public  confidence  in  the                                                                   
guided  sport  fishery and  the  data upon  which  management                                                                   
decisions  are  made. HB  452 will  establish  licensing  and                                                                   
reporting  requirements for businesses  and guides  providing                                                                   
sport  fishing guide  services in  fresh and  salt waters  of                                                                   
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Heinze  pointed out that the  bill establishes                                                                   
two  types of  licenses: a  sport  fishing services  operator                                                                   
license and a fishing guide license,  and establishes minimum                                                                   
requirements and  fees for obtaining each license.  Under the                                                                   
provisions of the bill, sport  fishing service operators must                                                                   
meet   licensing,    insurance,   and   other    requirements                                                                   
established  by  the Board  of  Fisheries. It  requires  that                                                                   
fishing  guides  operate  under  the  authority  of  a  sport                                                                   
fishing  service operator  license,  either  by holding  that                                                                   
license  themselves  or  by  being   employed  by,  or  under                                                                   
contract  with,  a  holder  of  a  fishing  service  operator                                                                   
license. The  bill also requires  that the licensed  guide be                                                                   
certified  in first  aid, have  applicable  U.S. Coast  Guard                                                                   
vessel licenses,  and meet other requirements  adopted by the                                                                   
Board of Fisheries.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HB 452 establishes  reporting  requirements, including  where                                                                   
guided  sport  fishing  activities   are  conducted  and  the                                                                   
quantity of fish  harvested. The bill ensures  that sensitive                                                                   
information will be kept confidential.  Representative Heinze                                                                   
concluded by urging support of the bill.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Harris asked if the Alaska  Outdoor Council supports                                                                   
the  bill.  Representative  Stoltze  stated that  he  is  the                                                                   
legislative  chairman of  the Alaska  Outdoor Council,  which                                                                   
officially opposes the bill.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Harris  asked  why   the  Outdoor  Council  doesn't                                                                   
support  the  bill.  Representative   Heinze  did  not  know.                                                                   
Representative Stoltze was unable to answer.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TAPE HFC 04 - 82, SIDE B                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Fate referred to  the fiscal note,  and asked                                                                   
about the corpus of the Fish and Game Fund.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KELLY HEPLER,  DIRECTOR, DIVISION  OF SPORT FISH,  DEPARTMENT                                                                   
OF  FISH AND  GAME clarified  that  the fiscal  note shows  a                                                                   
Department account funded primarily by license sales.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Fate  asked if the  funds come from  the ADF&G                                                                   
revolving loan fund. Mr. Hepler  explained that the fees from                                                                   
licensing of guides go directly  into the account, which is a                                                                   
uniquely  different fund  than  the revolving  loan fund  for                                                                   
commercial fishermen.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Meyer  asked if the fees  are the same for  out of                                                                   
state fishing guides.   Mr. Hepler replied that  about 25% of                                                                   
the guides are  non-residents. The Department  of Law advised                                                                   
that  ADF&G should  evaluate  if its  program  administration                                                                   
costs are higher  for non-resident than for  resident guides.                                                                   
He stated  that the  Department cannot  verify higher  costs,                                                                   
but  it can  charge  differentially under  the  sport-fishing                                                                   
program, and it requires the non-resident  licensed guides to                                                                   
buy sport-fishing licenses.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Chenault asked  if the 25% non-resident guides                                                                   
includes fly-in  guides, and if  they are required to  have a                                                                   
license.  Mr.  Hepler  replied  that  they  are  required  to                                                                   
register if they are actively guiding.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Chenault  thought  that fresh  and  saltwater                                                                   
guides are  currently required  to be  licensed and  have CPR                                                                   
certification.  Mr. Hepler explained  that Kenai  has special                                                                   
rules  because   it  is  under  the  Department   of  Natural                                                                   
Resources,   Division  of   Parks.  The   remainder  of   the                                                                   
freshwater  guides  is  not under  the  same  provisions.  He                                                                   
explained that this bill consolidates other requirements.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker referred  to the  language on  page 4,                                                                   
line  3, "satisfies  all additional  requirements adopted  in                                                                   
regulation  by  the  Board  of   Fisheries"  and  asked  what                                                                   
additional  requirements are  contemplated.  Mr. Hepler  said                                                                   
there might be requirements for  zoning, such as on the Kenai                                                                   
River, or harvest recording. The  Legislature would limit the                                                                   
Board of Fish to the enforcement  of the fishing regulations.                                                                   
Representative Hawker  expressed concern that  the open-ended                                                                   
language would place the Board  of Fisheries in a regulation-                                                                   
making role, with geographical  differences within the state.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ROB  BENTZ,   DEPUTY  DIRECTOR,   DIVISION  OF  SPORT   FISH,                                                                   
DEPARTMENT  OF FISH AND  GAME, explained  that the  intent of                                                                   
the language on line 3, page 4  is to request locations where                                                                   
the guides intend to operate and to give them some choices.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Harris asked  if the fiscal note is  adding four new                                                                   
and one  part-time positions.  Mr. Hepler  affirmed,  and the                                                                   
positions  would  handle  the  administration  of  the  large                                                                   
number of  licenses and provide  data summaries to  the Board                                                                   
of Fisheries.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Harris pointed  out that this bill  would expand the                                                                   
scope  and size  of  government. Mr.  Hepler  agreed that  it                                                                   
would.  Co-Chair Harris asked  about the increase in revenues                                                                   
in the  next few fiscal  years. Mr.  Hepler replied  that the                                                                   
Department  prorated the  number of guides  over five  years.                                                                   
Co-Chair Harris noted that it  shows a decrease in costs from                                                                   
FY05  to FY06.  Mr.  Hepler replied  that  there are  initial                                                                   
capital startup  costs and  personnel increases.  In response                                                                   
to a question  by Co-Chair Harris, Mr. Hepler  explained that                                                                   
the  $10 thousand  travel  budget is  for  meetings with  the                                                                   
guides or in Juneau, and it is not in the current budget.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Chenault asked  in relation  to the  required                                                                   
reports  for guides whether  fish tickets  would be  required                                                                   
for fresh  and saltwater fishing.   Mr. Hepler said  that the                                                                   
intent was  to keep  it a  sport fishing  bill and not  bring                                                                   
commercial  fishing into  it.   The question  is whether  the                                                                   
language  is so  broad  that  it needs  to  be  amended.   He                                                                   
offered  to discuss  it with  staff and  suggest a  committee                                                                   
substitute  by  the sponsor  if  the Department  believes  it                                                                   
poses a problem.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Chenault  commented   that  as  a   resource                                                                   
management  tool, he  thought  the Department  would want  to                                                                   
track  the real  catch  numbers  from guided  and  non-guided                                                                   
fishing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  asked  how  sport-fishing  guides  are                                                                   
regulated  now. Mr.  Hepler explained  that  when a  similar,                                                                   
more broadly written  bill did not pass the  Legislature, the                                                                   
ADF&G looked  at revising  regulatory  language outside  of a                                                                   
statute  change.  The ADF&G  wanted  to register  guides  and                                                                   
improve reporting  in saltwater,  which led to  the saltwater                                                                   
logbook. The  guides are  still required  to have a  business                                                                   
license and to  meet Coast Guard requirements.   He said that                                                                   
the only  difference in this bill  is guide licensing  to get                                                                   
the freshwater report information.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
In  response  to  a question  by  Representative  Croft,  Mr.                                                                   
Hepler said that  a large segment of the guiding  industry is                                                                   
not saltwater-based.  There is  no direct reporting  from the                                                                   
Kenai,  Susitna  Basin,  Copper  Basin and  Bristol  Bay.  He                                                                   
explained that it  is a Board of Fish violation  to operate a                                                                   
guiding business without registering with the Department.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
In  response  to  a question  by  Representative  Croft,  Mr.                                                                   
Hepler said  that the Department  currently could  only track                                                                   
the saltwater  guide  activity in  an area.   The bill  would                                                                   
provide reporting  in fresh water, set misdemeanor  fines for                                                                   
not  registering  and  reporting, and  regulate  the  guiding                                                                   
industry statewide.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Bentz  commented   that  the   numbers  are   currently                                                                   
inaccurate  and the bill  would also  require information  on                                                                   
where the activities are taking place.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Harris  MOVED  to ADOPT  Amendment  #1.    Co-Chair                                                                   
Williams objected.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bentz explained that Amendment #1 has two parts.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #1 reads:                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page  6,  line  16,  following   "board.":  Insert  "The                                                                   
     department  and  the  board   may  adopt  by  regulation                                                                   
     requirements for  timely submission of  reports required                                                                   
     under this  section or under regulations  adopted by the                                                                   
     department or board."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page  6, line  31, following  "AS 16.40.270(e)":  Insert                                                                   
     "or  who knowingly  fails to comply  with a  requirement                                                                   
     for  timely   submission  of   reports  required   by  a                                                                   
     regulation adopted under AS 16.40.280(b)"                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bentz  read the language  on page  6, line 16.   Co-Chair                                                                   
Harris asked  why it is needed.  Mr. Bentz replied  that when                                                                   
Representative  Heinze discussed  the  bill with  Legislative                                                                   
Legal,  Mr. Utermohle  recommended  this  language for  legal                                                                   
reasons even though it seems redundant.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bentz  explained that part  two of Amendment #1,  page 6,                                                                   
line  31  would  change  the reporting  time  period  of  the                                                                   
operator. Currently the logbook  program is on a weekly basis                                                                   
and  he  commented  that  an   operator  could  be  late  for                                                                   
circumstantial  reasons. If this  wording is not  included on                                                                   
line 31,  one tardy report would  fall under (a)  which would                                                                   
change  the   penalty  from   a  violation   to  a   Class  A                                                                   
misdemeanor,  and would  change the  fine from  a maximum  of                                                                   
$500  to a  maximum of  $10,000  and one  year in  jail.   He                                                                   
stated  that the  Department supports  these  changes in  the                                                                   
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Williams  removed his  objection.  Amendment  #1 was                                                                   
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Foster referred  to the  fourth paragraph  of                                                                   
the   letter  from   the  Kenai   River  Professional   Guide                                                                   
Association (copy  on file) in  which the Association  states                                                                   
that  it already  pays  fees  to  the Department  of  Natural                                                                   
Resources (DNR).  Mr. Hepler explained  that to guide  on the                                                                   
Kenai River, which is a park,  currently requires payments to                                                                   
DNR of $450 by  residents and $1350 by non-residents.   If it                                                                   
is a concern  of the guides,  it could be brought  before the                                                                   
Legislature. Mr.  Hepler thought fees might  be split between                                                                   
the DNR and his own Department.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Harris  MOVED  to  report CSHB  452  (FIN)  out  of                                                                   
Committee  with individual recommendations  and the  attached                                                                   
fiscal note. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CSHB 452(FIN)  was REPORTED out of Committee  with individual                                                                   
recommendations and two fiscal impact notes.                                                                                    
HOUSE BILL NO. 452                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     An Act relating to licensing and regulation of sport                                                                       
     fishing services operators and fishing guides; and                                                                         
     providing for an effective date.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DON  JOHNSON,  GUIDE,  SOLDOTNA,  spoke against  HB  452.  He                                                                   
stated  he has  expressed his  objection  to the  legislation                                                                   
with  the sponsor.  He  observed  that had  provided  written                                                                   
testimony.  He   felt  that   the  legislation  would   place                                                                   
unnecessary   restrictions.  He   maintained  that   creating                                                                   
similarly situated  subclasses within the general  sport fish                                                                   
class  would  create  illegal exclusive  fishery  rights.  He                                                                   
claimed  that the  legislation attempts  to grant  non-guided                                                                   
anglers  exclusive fishing  rights over  guided anglers.   He                                                                   
maintained that it is unconstitutional  to create regulations                                                                   
designed  to  establish  exclusive   fishery  rights  between                                                                   
similarly situated residents.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Chenault  asked   for  further  documentation                                                                   
regarding groups opposing the legislation.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Johnson further argued against the legislation and                                                                          
maintained that its passage would end in litigation.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HB 425 was heard and HELD in Committee for further                                                                              
consideration.                                                                                                                  

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